The Polygraph Place

Thanks for stopping by our bulletin board.
Please take just a moment to register so you can post your own questions
and reply to topics. It is free and takes only a minute to register. Just click on the register link


  Polygraph Place Bulletin Board
  Professional Issues - Private Forum for Examiners ONLY
  Age limitations?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Age limitations?
kipplow
Member
posted 04-07-2008 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kipplow   Click Here to Email kipplow     Edit/Delete Message
What the most recent data or information on the age limitations for polygraphs? Any APA opinion? I keep getting more inquiries about poolygraphs involving juveniles in treatment programs.

IP: Logged

thenolieguy4u
Member
posted 04-07-2008 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thenolieguy4u   Click Here to Email thenolieguy4u     Edit/Delete Message
Hi,

In California theoretically you could test a suspect as young as age fourteen as that is the age cut off in this State where one could be tried as an adult. I think the greatest variable is that they are operating in a macro young adult mind vs. a ego self interest only juvenile mind. I have only done so on three or so such subjects at the request of defense attorneys.

IP: Logged

kipplow
Member
posted 04-07-2008 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kipplow   Click Here to Email kipplow     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks. To me one would not really be able to determine true suitability until the pretest to see cognitively the examinees mental capacity, such as you cited. I was checking to see if there were any steadfast rules. Be safe!

IP: Logged

thenolieguy4u
Member
posted 04-07-2008 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thenolieguy4u   Click Here to Email thenolieguy4u     Edit/Delete Message
Hi,

The answer to that question will vary among even psychologists who would interview the same subject. Your safest bet is to use the legal age for adult culpability in your respective State. Even then, you can find some mighty immature folks.

IP: Logged

Barry C
Member
posted 04-07-2008 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barry C   Click Here to Email Barry C     Edit/Delete Message
What does an arbitrary age tell us about suitability for a polygraph? California is a common law state, and under common law, the courts decided that 0 to 7 year olds couldn't formulate the requisite mens rea for any crime. I think there was a rebuttable presumption that they couldn't do so from 7 to 14, but every person is different. For the courts, easy hard and fast rules won the day - regardless of whether they we true or not.

With juveniles there are a lot of unanswered questions, but one of my first is usually whether the cardio cuff will fit.

You might have an eight year old who's better suited for a test than a 15 year old - not that I'd ever test an 8-year-old. With that said, I think juveniles, due to their gross lack of life experience and our ability to get down to their level, among other things, are very delicate tests, and I avoid them (and I know I'm not alone here).

IP: Logged

Polybob
Member
posted 04-07-2008 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polybob   Click Here to Email Polybob     Edit/Delete Message
My own general rule is anyone under the age of 12 I will not test. Over that age I will at least interview and try to determine their suitability. I do advise the person requesting the exam that there is a higher probability of an INC result with a young/immature person. Along with their lack maturity I also find that the young folks seem to have a more dificult time sitting still. If it is not going to be a good quality test there is not much point in doing it.

IP: Logged

rnelson
Member
posted 04-07-2008 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
There is little actual data on this, but ehre is some convergence of evidence that somewhere around age 12 is a chronological lower limit.

Abrams did a little bit (during the 1970s), and suggested that functional maturity is probably more important than age. We all know that not all 12 year olds are created equally. Some are 12 going on 8.

There is also evidence that reliability with mentally retarded persons (IQ < 70) may not be good.

A look at stratified Functional Age Equivalency levels or Standardized Age Scores (depending on whether you like the Weschler/Kauffman or Binet family of IQ tests), will suggest that adults whose IQs are ~70 have MAE/SAS scores of about age 12.

With that in mind, Colorado set the chronological referal threshold at age 14, but allows referral of 12-13 year-old if the referring professional is confident the youth is functioning like a 12 year old (per psychometric testing), and believes the polygraph can play a useful role informing treatment and risk management decisions.

There are also developmental and physiological reasons pertaining to the prefrontal/executive cortex and abstraction skills that begin fully mature after about age 12. It is, of course the prefrontal cortex that is responsible for attention concentration, problem solving, judgement (including about things like whether or not to lie), and of course all of the mental gymnastics that is involved in ignoring a stimulus question, thinking about something else instead, and monitoring one's body/acting careful so as to avoid revealing when one is lying. All enervated by acetylcholine, the same loveable little neurotransmitter in the skin, enervating all the postganglionic sympathetic neurons that regulate those precious eccrine sweat pores.

Here is a short slideshow I made for the SCOA on polygraph suitability concerns.
http://www.raymondnelson.us/suitability/PolgyraphSuitabilityRN022007.pdf


r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)

[This message has been edited by rnelson (edited 04-07-2008).]

IP: Logged

ckieso
Member
posted 04-07-2008 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ckieso   Click Here to Email ckieso     Edit/Delete Message
If you get on the APA website and look at the "Model Policy" for PCSOT testing, the APA states under section 1.3 "No testing is recommended for individuals under the age of 12."

Also I know that states such as Colorado have stipulations that recommend no one under the age of 12 be tested for PCSOT. They recommend no one under 14, but will test as young as 12 if they meet certain criteria including: consistent orientation to date, time and place; understand possible rewards and consequences for not telling the truth; etc.

Like you stated, many of these things need to be determined during the pre-test interview. There are many maturity levels regardless of age. I have tested several adult offenders who have less maturity and insight than some of the juveniles I test.

------------------
"Truth Seekers"


IP: Logged

Taylor
Member
posted 04-07-2008 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor   Click Here to Email Taylor     Edit/Delete Message
Ray - great power point!

IP: Logged

Buster
Member
posted 04-08-2008 07:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message
Ditto, excellent Ray. How do you feel about me saving that?

IP: Logged

cpolys
Member
posted 04-08-2008 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpolys     Edit/Delete Message
Ray,

Nice presentation. What do you write in your reports as a disclaimer regarding clients who are deemed marginal?

Marty

IP: Logged

rnelson
Member
posted 04-08-2008 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for the kind words. (the boxy lines in the .pdf images make me dizzy. they don't look that way in the powerpoint slides)

Having some intelligent exclusionary criteria helps silence the assault from our detractors who would accuse us of testing anyone with a pulse.

Here is some boilerplate:

quote:
******** reported that he takes several medications, including Flomax (for prostate enlargement), Temazepam (for insomnia), Effexor (antidepressant), Prinzide (for high blood pressure), Hydralazine (for high blood pressure), and Avadart (for prostate). ******** further reported that he suffered a stroke and aneurysm at age 30 (approximately 37 years ago), and further reported that he had to learn to read and write again after that cerbro-vascular accident (CVA). ******** reported that he was out of work for three months following that CVA, and further reported that that he has experienced some memory deficits since that time. ******** reported he continues to have some difficulty with reading and retaining information that he obtains from reading. ******** reported that he was married at the time of that stroke and aneurysm, and divorced after that time. ******** reported that he recently underwent a prostate biopsy, and denied any acute health problems at the time of this examination.

and some addition language about his suitability:

quote:
Upon completion of the pretest interview, this examiner determined ******** to be marginally suitable for the polygraph technique, due to his reported use of multiple prescription medications to remediate the potentially overwhelming effect of his medical and mental health issues on his day to day functioning. While there is no published research or theoretical rationale suggesting that any medical conditions or medications would cause erroneous polygraph examination results, some of ********'s medications may affect the quality and responsiveness of sympathetic nervous system reactions monitored by the polygraph instrument. As a result, there may be some increased likelihood of obtaining an unresolved or inconclusive test result. Clinical commonsense suggests that persons who function optimally while taking prescription medications should produce polygraph test data of optimal interpretable quality while taking any necessary medications. There is no way to predict the exact effects of medications for any individual, and medication effects will vary with the types and numbers of medication, dosages, length of time on medications, and with individual physiology. Ethical empirical practices dictate that the application of normative data and normative interpretive thresholds to exceptional individuals (i.e., persons whose functional characteristics are outside the normal distribution of persons in the intended sample or population) should always be regarded with caution.

and a comment about the test data:

quote:
Careful inspection of ********'s polygraph examination record revealed test data of marginal interpretable quality, due to substantial dampening of electrodermal response throughout the examination, in addition some instability and lability in cardiovascular response data throughout the test. Despite the loss of some interpretable test data, the remainder of ********'s examination record was sufficiently free of artifacts and distorted segments to complete a standard numerical evaluation in attempt to render a qualified opinion regarding these test results.

Not surprisingly, this gentleman seems to have a number of inconclusive tests. Clarity around these concerns, helps temper the impulse of each new and inexperienced PO to revocate and resentence this guy based only on his polygraph results.

In Colorado, we have stated in our standards of practice that the goals for the PCSOT program include:

  • disclosure of additional/unreported information,
  • deterence of non-compliance and problem behavior, and
  • decision support value of the test result

Any of these objectives is sufficient to use the polygraph. When the community supervision team concludes there would be no contribution to these objectives, they are justified in deciding not to use the polygraph.

r


------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


[This message has been edited by rnelson (edited 04-08-2008).]

IP: Logged

All times are PT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Polygraph Place

copyright 1999-2003. WordNet Solutions. All Rights Reserved

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.39c
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 1999.